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  • Rail in articles

    As some of you noticed, in the articles we have again that rail on the right. Not my choice, can’t help it, sorry.

    Categories

    I have an idea about cleaning up categories, but it’s up to you whether it should be applied or not.

    Currently, pages have categories which don’t apply anymore to, for example, a character. Let’s take a look at Noel’s categories:

    • Military Academy
    • Detective Team of Pretty Girls: Remix Heart
    • World Void Information Controlling Organization

    We know that she’s not anymore a student at the Military Academy, Remix Heart team is an old story, and she left the Controlling Organization. I think categorizing it like this might be a little misleading.

    My idea is to categorize only the present organizations. Anyway, in the infobox it is noted that she was a Military Academy student, a member of the Remix Heart team, and a soldier at the WVICO.

    In case of characters like Nine, I think historical groups should be as they are now.

    Anyway, please tell me what you think of it.

    “Ragna’s large sword”

    This time, this article is named “Blood Scythe”, but as it’s noted in this page’s trivia, the name of this sword is actually unknown. Then, shouldn't we change this article name to "Ragna's large sword"? The most safe article name in this case.

    Miscellaneous subpages

    I was thinking about changing a little miscellaneous subpages we have for characters. The most notable change would be moving "appearances" from infobox section to that "miscellaneous" page. Just take a look at this.

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    • So you want the categories to be only from the organisations they're currently with? But historical characters to keep old organisations? Yeah that sounds fair enough. Although I think you should keep the remix heart one.

      With Ragna's sword I don't really mind whether or not it changes, but yes as the sword's name is unknown the name Blood Scythe should just be mentioned as one of its other names.

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    • Categories
      I partially disagree.
      Noel is not a Military Academy student, true, but she got education there, so if someone, for example, will look for characters that were studying in the Academy, they'll go look at the pages in its category. Or we'll have to delete this category, since Emma is the only known person still associated with it. Same goes for Magic Association school.
      As for Organization, since serving there doesn't usually leave an impact on someone's future, maybe it is fine to remove that from now-unrelated characters, same goes for Seventh Agency. But, it might confuse some people who haven't yet played through all of games, and as we saw not so long ago, there are people who don't read the articles and ask questions that are answered in said articles.
      Team Remix Heart... I don't think they should have a category at all. I mean, if someone in-universe mentions Six Heroes, everyone understand who they're talking about. If someone mentions Mitsurugi Agency, some people will understand that, but still, there are not associated people that refer to them by this name. Team Remix Heart? Only that team calls themself like this, no-one else will understand what that means. And I still don't get why Shiori is counted as one of them.
      "Ragna's Blood Aramasa"
      I vote for renaming, but wouldn't "greatsword" fit better? Well, this piece of metal doesn't look like any type of a sword (might be a LW tho), but it just occured to me that "big sword" might also be translated as "greatsword".
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    • @Face Monster Greatsword sounds pretty good. I see what you mean with the catergories of team remix heart, the NOL and Sector Sector.

      So how are these things going to be rearranged?

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    • I think that characters should be placed into categories for groups even if they no longer belong to them. Removing them entirely would be misleading since they were associated with these groups and have history with them even if they don't belong to them anymore. Noel not being in the NOL category for example just feels wrong considering she was part of it for over 2 games. And why make an exemption for Nine? She was still alive during the games rather than being a historical figure. By that reasoning categories such as the Ten Sages, the Immortal Breakers and the Six Heroes shouldn't exist since they're defunct and none of their former members are part of them.

      Team Remix Heart should exist as a category. That group was central to Remix Heart and they do form a group even if they aren't some sort of official or well-known organization. And Shiori did join that group during the 3rd volume of the manga.

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    • >Noel not being in the NOL category for example just feels wrong considering she was part of it for over 2 games.

      One game, because in CS she's kinda neutral, and in the end sides with Makoto and Tager.

      >And why make an exemption for Nine?

      Because "Six Heroes" is not an organization, it's a title. She was called a hero for saving mankind, no-one said she's not a hero anymore, and no-one undid that act for her to not be called a hero.

      >By that reasoning categories such as the Ten Sages, the Immortal Breakers and the Six Heroes shouldn't exist

      Look above for Six Heroes, and I agree with you on the rest. Sage is a title that indicates magical power, it's important. Breaker is a title that indicates an ability to kill immortals, which is also important. It's not like abandoning either job removes the powers and abilities that allowed them to be a Sage or a Breaker.

      As for Organization, it sure looks misleading, but... If someone was a Breaker and then moved on, they still are a Breaker, because they can kill immortals or know how to do that. What about the Organization or the Agency? Did they leave any impact on their former employees?

      >And Shiori did join that group during the 3rd volume of the manga

      Shiori did appear in the 3rd volume of the manga. Let's see...

      Noel: Shiori became Mai and Kajun's roommate, and with her supertaste, would it be good to tell about Remix Heart's purpose?

      She didn't say "join Remix Heart", she said "tell about it". And even that was left unanswered, and there's no more mentions of Team Remix Heart in 3rd volume. So, when did Shiori join them?

      That's what I dislike about this category. If a person is canonized, they become a Sage. If a person is capable of killing immortals, they are called an Immortal Breaker. If a person develops a crystal, they become a Union. If a person is working for Organization/Agency, they are its employee.

      How does one become a part of Remix Heart then? So, I suggest removing the category and leaving the page. Same goes for Sin Architects. Actually, these are even more ambiguous, so seriously, let's leave the page and remove the category.

      And Maha Raja's category is also unneeded, since there are only two known people who worked there.

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    • Noel's most iconic outfit is her NOL uniform though. And the ending is ambiguous for a number of characters. For example we have no proof that Kokonoe rejoined Sector Seven; we see her in a lab but we aren't told her status. Better to be inclusive and have both current and former members in a category. Roy was defined by his time in Sector Seven for example, so it seems wrong to remove him just because he's a former member.

      There are characters that don't belong to the Immortal Breakers from BE who also have the ability to kill immortals. Tsubaki and Mai both have weapons capable of doing that for example. And the Ten Sages were a group that ruled Ishana rather than a level of magical ability. Xblaze even made it clear that you didn't need much magic power to get in if you had the political influence necessary to get existing sages to vote for your inclusion.

      Shiori didn't have some sort of entrance ceremony, but the fact she learned what the group was for and participated in the group's activities made it clear that she joined Team Remix Heart. Unlike say Chachakaka, who also knew about the group but stayed out of it. And the ending where Mai asks about whether the group should break up has Shiori arguing against that, which shows she was part of it.

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    • >Noel's most iconic outfit is her NOL uniform though.

      True, but Jin also constantly wears this uniform, even when he left the Organization. And Hazama doesn't wear a uniform at all. That indicates nothing.

      >And the ending is ambiguous for a number of characters. For example we have no proof that Kokonoe rejoined Sector Seven; we see her in a lab but we aren't told her status.

      Didn't she, like, rejoin the Agency back at the end of CP? I remember something about her using its electricity to replace what Magic Formulas previously did. And besides, she seems to be one of its leaders, since it was her who decided where to build their facility. With Relius gone, the others have no need to be against her. And she needs funding to keep a guy constantly frozen. Everything points at her being back in the Agency.

      >Roy was defined by his time in Sector Seven for example, so it seems wrong to remove him just because he's a former member.

      Say, what defines him more: "a scientist from Seventh Agency" or "a guy that turned himself into Arakune"?

      >There are characters that don't belong to the Immortal Breakers from BE who also have the ability to kill immortals.

      There are vigilantes that don't belong to the Organization, but work for it and are being paid by it. And who are these characters, by the way? Because...

      >Tsubaki and Mai both have weapons capable of doing that for example.

      This is why these weapons are called Immortal Breakers. Technically, everyone can use them, that doesn't make everyone Breakers.

      >And the Ten Sages were a group that ruled Ishana rather than a level of magical ability.

      Except one needs to have lots of magical power to be even considered to become one.

      >Xblaze even made it clear that you didn't need much magic power to get in if you had the political influence necessary to get existing sages to vote for your inclusion.

      Great, now go actually play the game. Because in XBlaze, Ten Sages are not the group that rules over Ishana, they are its guardians. It is a honor to become a Sage, because this title is given to those who are incredibly powerful and skilled. And it's not other Sages who select new members, it's what the rulers of Ishana do. They tried to bribe Kuon with this title, but she refused.

      >Shiori didn't have some sort of entrance ceremony, but the fact she learned what the group was for and participated in the group's activities made it clear that she joined Team Remix Heart.

      You know what the group was for? IIRC, their purpose is looking for a grimoire that can cure Mai. The "Detective Team" bit was added to the title specifically because of that, because they were supposed to investigate this stuff, except they didn't. And Shiori participated in that how? She appeared when they stopped introducing new grimoires.

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    • Roy would have never turned himself into Arakune if it weren't for what happened in Sector Seven. His frustration with and jealousy of Kokonoe is what drove him to what he did. His membership in Sector Seven was extremely important in his life, just as Noel's participation in the NOL was for hers. The events of CT would have never happened if Noel hadn't been sent to Kagutsuchi.

      I think people will have a better understanding about the various groups and characters if both current and past members are included in these categories to make it explicit that the characters were connected to these organizations. And why priviledge the state of affairs after the end of Central Fiction? Within the context of Remix Heart for example Jin, Noel, Tsubaki and Mai were all academy students.

      Is it made explicity that members of the Immortal Breakers have an innate ability to kill immortals that does not rely on any tools? Also, not everyone can use those weapons. Izayoi can only be used by a member of the Yayoi family and only Tsubaki has ever unlocked its true form. Gallia Sphyra is tuned to Mai and only she can use it.

      Not everyone who has a lot of magic power became one of the Ten Sages. They needed to earn the position in some way and it had duties and responsibilities. Ishana didn't simply scan every mage with a scouter and declare them a Sage if their power level is high enough.

      Team Remix Heart decided to keep looking for the azure grimoire in the 24th chapter of Remix Heart and the group included Shiori, so she was part of the group. Just because the group was busy with othet things for a while doesn't mean it had ceased to exist.

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    • Woah, easy guys.

      Let's just leave categories as they are, but now a category page will say:

      Characters who are working, or used to work, for the 7th Agency. or other organization, it's just an example

      The key element is "who are working, or used to work" -- I saw sometimes people categorizing Ragna under the Seventh Agency category just because Kokonoe restored him the left arm. I don't see any sense in categorizing, for example, Grimwood, under this category, because he had connections to Kokonoe, and connection to her doesn't mean he's now working with the Agency.

      Is it okay?

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    • That sounds fair to me. I agree that Ragna and Grimwood shouldn't count as Sector Seven members. By that sort of reasoning Kagura could be considered a member as well since Kokonoe did favors for him too. Cooperating with members of an organization doesn't mean that one is a member themselves.

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    • Well we already have that in the human category, there it says characters that are or were humans so this seems fine.

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    • Just added "Miscellaneous subpages" section into this thread's main post, so take a look.

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    • Well, while I don't agree with all the points Eryops made (nothing wrong with you, I guess it's because of my own point of view), but I definitely agree with this:

      >And why priviledge the state of affairs after the end of Central Fiction? Within the context of Remix Heart for example Jin, Noel, Tsubaki and Mai were all academy students.

      And while we're at this, I suggest we use Noel's Organization CF artwork on her page.


      >Is it made explicity that members of the Immortal Breakers have an innate ability to kill immortals that does not rely on any tools?

      No, but if killing an immortal is possible through a tool, that tool is called a Breaker.

      >Also, not everyone can use those weapons. Izayoi can only be used by a member of the Yayoi family and only Tsubaki has ever unlocked its true form. Gallia Sphyra is tuned to Mai and only she can use it.

      Izayoi is only sealed by a lock that can be opened only with the blood of a Yayoi. It was never said that only they can use it. And novels actually say that once it was recovered, it was given to the Yayoi so they could guard it and use, if necessary. It's not their heirloom, anyone could get it. Tsubaki accessed its true form thanks to Izanami, it's not like she's herself that special. Outseal is tuned to Mai, but it could be tuned to literally anyone else, right? That doesn't make Mai special.

      >Not everyone who has a lot of magic power became one of the Ten Sages. [...] Ishana didn't simply scan every mage with a scouter and declare them a Sage if their power level is high enough.

      But it is a necessary requirement. Or else those Ishana elders from XBlaze would just promote themselves to Sages, since they worked so hard for it.

      BlazBlue: Phase Shift 1:
      Therefore, to be appointed, one must have an authority over the fitting knowledge and experiences, a degree of contribution toward the Mages' Guild, and most of all, the required strength of magic.

      They didn't need a scanner, they just picked the strongest among those who have knowledge and made something significant. Since they had to canonize a schoolgirl, of all people, you can say that there are few people that pass all of the requirements.

      >Team Remix Heart decided to keep looking for the azure grimoire in the 24th chapter of Remix Heart and the group included Shiori, so she was part of the group.

      It's like saying "Celica was with the Six Heroes, so she was part of the group", or "Ragna was with Kagura, so he was a part of the Organization". It doesn't work this way. And we don't know how it works, because this "team" exists only in name. Okay, how about this: the team was assembled to look for grimoires, right? Then, if they, including Shiori, obtain at least one either in-between Remix Heart and Variable Heart, or during Variable Heart, then we can say she's the part of that group. Or if the actual definition of the group will show up somewhere before that happens.


      Next, Wikipedia actually says that daiken can actually be a longsword or a greatsword. So I suggest replacing "Large sword of Ragna the Bloodedge" with "Ragna the Bloodedge's greatsword". Looks better imo.


      And I fully support the new look of Miscellaneous pages, you know why.

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    • The very passage you quoted states that being a Sage is an appointment. Just because being powerful is listed as a requirement doesn't mean that it's a measure of a mage's power.

      Shiori hangs out with the other girls from volume 3 onwards and she appears in the illustration of the group in volume 4 of Remix Heart. Also they outright say that Team Remix Heart will continue to exist and will keep looking for the Azure grimoire in chapter 24 and Shiori acts and is treated as part of the group in that scene. Stating that they need to be shown finding a grimoire with Shiori present before we can accept that this actually happened seems pretty pedantic. The Six Heroes comparison doesn't fit since the Six Heroes had a specificed membership and Celica wasn't in it. Team Remix Heart did not have a defined membership. Also we were given a definition in Remix Heart Gaiden: they were a group whose goal was to find the Azure grimoire and use it to restore Mai's sense of taste.

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    • >Just because being powerful is listed as a requirement doesn't mean that it's a measure of a mage's power

      Wait, did you just say "Just because being powerful is listed as a requirement to become a Sage, it doesn't mean that Sages are powerful"?

      >Shiori hangs out with the other girls from volume 3 onwards

      Because she wanted to use them to kill Jin initially. And later she just became obsessed with Mai and was hanging around her, not the group.

      >and she appears in the illustration of the group in volume 4 of Remix Heart

      Really? That's some shipper logic here, no wonder I feel like talking to a wall. Think whatever you want, do whatever you want, list all of the Military Academy as "Team Remix Heart" - I don't care. But, one last thing...

      >Also we were given a definition in Remix Heart Gaiden: they were a group whose goal was to find the Azure grimoire and use it to restore Mai's sense of taste.

      First, this definition was first given in manga. Second, they stopped looking for grimoires at all after Shiori arrived. After Shiori arrived and they decided that they should keep Mai's abilities secret.

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    • Sage is a position with specific duties, priviledges and responsibilities; the fact the people who fill that position are powerful does not mean that the title's purpose is to indicate the holder's personal power.

      It feels like I'm talking to a wall since you've repeatedly ignored the fact that they decided to maintain the group keep looking for the Azure grimoire at the end of the manga. And I mentioned the game because that definition is given more succinctly there.

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    • >Sage is a position with specific duties, priviledges and responsibilities; the fact the people who fill that position are powerful does not mean that the title's purpose is to indicate the holder's personal power.

      Did I say that the title's purpose is to indicate power? NO. It's a necessary requirement to be a Sage, so this title can serve as an indicator, you're the one who brought purpose here.

      >It feels like I'm talking to a wall since you've repeatedly ignored the fact that they decided to maintain the group keep looking for the Azure grimoire at the end of the manga.

      I didn't ignore that, it seems like you're ignoring everything I say. Did I say the group was disbanded back then? NO. I just want to know why exactly Shiori is considered as one of them, excluding things like "she is drawn near them" or "she wants Mai to be cured". Taro also likes to hang out around Mai, and if he knew he'd also like to help her find a cure. HE'S A PART OF TEAM REMIX HEART! No.

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    • Okay? But I thought this thread is about some wiki changes, not about the story and facts. So if you want to still talk about this, your walls are always open.

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    • A FANDOM user
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